No one gives a rats ass if you're the only one online, if there's no users in the rooms, or if there's more then 12 in a room. STOP. UPLOADING. SCREENSHOTS OF IT.

Word. I'd also like to point out that artgrounds isn't a site to use for uploading random screencaps from anime's and/or games. There are other sites for that.

I agree with RPD and Merc. 8C I wish there wasn't alot of those type of ppl here and go to another site!

sorry, I wont do it again. I thought it was fun.... but I guess it wast sorry

I fourth this. This is [b]art[/b]grounds, not photobucket.

[quote]This is artgrounds, not photobucket.[/quote] Well said.

i agree

Okay, just replied to a post related to this in another thread... I'm going to give the admins permission to delete the following: Screenshots of stuff you didn't create. Things that aren't art. Example: Image consisting entirely of colored scribbles Any picture where the artist mentions that "I know this sucks, but uploading anyway" EXCEPT in cases where described image is actually good. Any picture which doesn't seem to follow the upload guidelines AT ALL. I encourage the admins to go and clean up right away.

does it really matter either? it's not like the screenshots are killing anybody.

I'm actually surprised admins did not have that permission before, but I agree. The screenshots get old and so do scribbles. I'm sure everyone's uploaded something that didn't necessarily qualify as finished art or something close to that. There's only one thing I would like a little clarification on: "Any picture where the artist mentions that «I know this sucks, but uploading anyway» EXCEPT in cases where described image is actually good." I just would like to know what is counted as "actually good" and if members who may not be as practiced or talented will have a different standard to someone who is much more experienced?

[quote]The screenshots get old and so do scribbles. I'm sure everyone's uploaded something that didn't necessarily qualify as finished art or something close to that.[/quote] You're absolutely right. Even I have something in my gallery that's not exactly art. But I only have one scribble...as opposed to users who have galleries full of 'em. This is where the extreme comes in that Botachi is defending. If it was only a few, that'd be one story. I agree with you, Yetcha. [quote]There's only one thing I would like a little clarification on: «Any picture where the artist mentions that «I know this sucks, but uploading anyway» EXCEPT in cases where described image is actually good.»[/quote] I think what was meant here is to the users normal artistic ability. For example: if I upload a stick figure that says "I suck" as opposed to uploading something typical of my ability and saying "I suck." Perhaps that one could use better defining.

We're not going to be narcissistic and boast about our art. Sure, a simple "I'm kind of proud of this" can suffice, but deleting it over a description? Not all of us are as...dare I say it, "great" as you are. Some of us want to show our progress. What we say about our own art is up to us. What you say is up to you. But deleting it is overboard. Why is it you'll delete something someone's trying to improve on, but not something that may offend someone else? (i.e, pornography) If you're allowing users join at the age of 13, but you're also allowing pornography to be uploaded, there's quite possibly something weird going on. What happened to the old Artgrounds? Wasn't it supposed to be fun? I made a lot of friends here, and because of what's happening, I'm losing them one-by-one. Just thought I'd point out a few things and get it off my chest. AG used to be my home away from home, and it's becoming a Hellhole. Thor, I'm sorry, but why did you let the site go downhill? I understand (somewhat) if you want to ban me or something. But I just don't agree with you too much. I just wish AG could have stayed the same. Some of the admins finally got what they wanted: to play King once in a while. I wish the site could go back to normal. But at this point, that's unlikely, isn't it? -If this post bothers you, sorry, but I'm extremely frustrated about all this. :|- Anyway, thanks for taking the time to take this into consideration. If you did, that is.

kinda agreee with RENT_Head in fact i don't 'kinda' agree, i do. it's up to us our comments, and woah has this place gone strict

I understand your frustrated, Rent. Let me try to explain a little bit from what I see, and Thor or someone who knows better than me can finish it off. [quote]Sure, a simple «I'm kind of proud of this» can suffice, but deleting it over a description? Not all of us are as...dare I say it, «great» as you are.[/quote] No one's asking anyone to upload something and say "I'm amazing!" I don't think Thor wants images uploaded that the user in question thinks is less than there ability or best. I know if I owned a site, I wouldn't want that. It also goes hand in hand with uploading spam drawings from the sketcher. Sure, they were fun, but they take up bandwidth that Thor has to pay for (and I haven't heard a single person pipe up and say they'd help. Just complaining over and over again). [quote]If you're allowing users join at the age of 13, but you're also allowing pornography to be uploaded, there's quite possibly something weird going on.[/quote] I'm unhappy with this as well. And I'd REALLY like if something would finally get done about it. [quote]I understand (somewhat) if you want to ban me or something. But I just don't agree with you too much. I just wish AG could have stayed the same. [/quote] I don't want to ban you for having an opinion. I am a little upset with the way you expressed it on the shout though, especially towards RPD. You don't have to like anyone (including the admins), but you do have to respect that we are admins and we need to do our jobs according to the boss. If we don't like it or don't agree, we quit. [quote]Some of the admins finally got what they wanted: to play King once in a while.[/quote] None of us [i]like[/i] banning users, yelling at our friends when the rules are broken or otherwise, and I am highly offended by this. Please don't judge if you don't like it without walking in our shoes first.

No offense to anyone...but like seriously? Quit making a big fuss. It's going to end up like the whole "banner" ordeal again.. There isn't anything too bad with these newer upload rules/restrictions, and I have to agree. Screenshots get old, especially ones of a video game. As for scribbles...you people know the difference between a seizures on Sketcher and funny things that are badly drawn on purpose. Stop making a huge fuss about this. So what if there are newer rules. As long as they don't bother you personally about what you can and cannot upload contentwise, you people should be fine. (EX: The Y-gallery change in their rules for no Anthro/Furry art) @Rent: No offense, dude, but like... What normal 13 year old has not seen/heard of porn? If you don't click, view it, etc., they;ll be fine. You can get worse from GOOGLE. Now please knock off all the drama, all of you. Sorry...but it's really childish.

Thank you Kiro.

I agree with Kian, I just felt things were going a little overboard. "I don't want to ban you for having an opinion. I am a little upset with the way you expressed it on the shout though, especially towards RPD. You don't have to like anyone (including the admins), but you do have to respect that we are admins and we need to do our jobs according to the boss. If we don't like it or don't agree, we quit." I used to love some of the admins, expecially you, Rip. But I think some of them are getting a bit too powerful. Artgrounds isn't as fun as it used to be. Many admins are separating themselves from the rest of the site. And I'm sure you'll agree, admins are no better than the rest of us. I understand that they have a job, and I understand that they must do it. But it's stressful on many of us. I know, saying "My art sucks" isn't a good thing. But many just say it to express how they want to improve. It sounds strange, I know, but come on. All in all, I'm afraid Admins are just getting less and less fun to be around. "I am a little upset with the way you expressed it on the shout though, especially towards RPD." I'm sorry, but I'm just not too fond of how admins have been behaving lately. Honest to God, I used to love hanging around RPD. But then he just got too big for his Licker mask and got a little cocky. Now, he just can't stand me, and apparently a few others. Which is fine, just disappointing. I appreciate the admins, and I know what Thor says isn't up to them. I'm just saying, AG seems to have gone downhill. I stayed because it used to be a great atmosphere, I LOVE Thor for the Sketcher program he made, and I made a lot of friends here. I don't want to leave all that behind. But now it's getting harder and harder to stay. I don't want to leave, but the site is less enjoyable, and it's just going to get worse if something doesn't get fixed. Rip, I do apologize for being that way in my previous post, but I'm just confused as shit and extremely frustrated. I hope you can understand that.

Oh I definitely cant stand a few others, but every time I've said something you were usually the first to say something about it. I'm pretty sure you know how I get. I'd figure you'd just ignore it..kinda like how everyone else does really. ;P Listen. I don't hate you, you just kinda...take the bullet for someone else. Which is actually commendable. But, I would like to start over. I didn't get too big for my licker mask, I just saw how annoying real life is outside of it and it kinda got to me. Guess I did have a big stick up my ass, eh?

I see what you mean. And I'd like to start over, as well. Nothing worse than losing a friend. Yes, you did have a "big stick up your ass," but it's fine. I just thought I lost one of my early friends on AG, and it worried me. However, I guess I do tend to over-react when things go wrong. But it's nothing I can't fix, right? :3

When I read the notice and saw the shout it actually had me go through my gallery. There are likely a couple of old things I'd personally take down myself eventually but there was one that drew a question for myself in all this. I had put up a sketch dump, though I knew it wasn't a scribble per say I still asked Thor directly about it. His approach was simple and just a question then a decision. Did I draw it? : yes. Well it is art so it can stay. Not the exact words, I could dig up the msn log and quote box it if you need. This is mainly just from what I can tell simply a resolution to an issue regarding the fact that this place is intended and designed to house your art. And not a place for you to just upload and link '[i]things[/i]' about. If you want to talk about how empty the sketcher rooms get some nights or how many over the visible limit a room has been filled to, you can always upload to photobucket, make a general forum thread to talk about it and link it in there. Or some [i]intentionally['i]funny '[i]scribble[/i]' as well. ... at least you'll be using the forums more ;) It's not about elitism it's about [i]what[/i] you are using [i]what[/i] service for.

I'm not "defending" anything but i mean unless the person is uploading a billion pointless screenshots its not killing anybody. And the "photos with no artistic merit" is also a little silly too, photography is art and so what if it isn't all fancified and photoshopped and looking good, everyone has a different opinion of art being "art" so you knew this was going to cause a bunch of trouble. And even so, the admins don't have to be so mean about it, they bark at everyone all the time and truthfully it gets old and annoying. And I agree with Rent. It's like the admins are going mad with power and running after people for small reasons. Artgrounds used to be so fun, and who knows, pretty soon the art allowed here will be limited to one thing. I just don't see what the big deal is with any of this and I think it's silly.

I think what the mean in regards to the photography is the difference between photography and a family album.

Bo actually has a small point in the photography. Yes, photography is art. Anything you see is art because generally, everything is drawn out. Now I will admit, there are a few admins that have overdone it as far as power goes. With me, I try to make it where I do my job and not overdo it to the point that people hate me or at least something to that effect. Now I see where people are going when they mention about how if the person thinks that the picture sucks and doesn't back it up with something good, it would get erased. Honestly, I did that at least twice before I cleared my gallery a good few months ago, I had something like that in my gallery. If you think about it though, most artists have come to believe that their own art sucks and they don't think they have anything more to say about it. Rent also had a point about how by deleting pictures such as what I just described, they can't compare their current to their former style and how much they've actually improved. I also understand about the point you guys are making on how AG just isn't as fun as it used to be. Reason for it is because it was one of the reasons that I quit a while back for around two months before actually coming back to the team that I oh so love and enjoy working with. I also didn't even have to ask about coming back onto the staff because Braden was being sneaky, not that I have a problem with that.

I don't even think admins are following their own guidelines anymore. People are uploading things THEY drew, not "family photos", screenshots, or scribbles or any of that, and it still gets deleted. We're sorry if we're not amazing artists with epic skills and knowledge of all anatomy and everything. We can't help how we draw. Artgrounds is becoming.... I don't even know. Deleting stuff because you don't DRAW perfectly? I really dont think I can consider AG an art site anymore.

We never said we're erasing that. If you upload an image and say YOURSELF that it sucks; why upload it? Why say it sucks? That's not even asking for help on it. You could go, "I need some help to improve" and it's much more of a difference. And about the photos. Do you have any idea how many photos of people I've deleted? No. It wasn't art. It was someone sitting at their computer chair. I'm taking Rip's quote here and changing it for my post. This is Artgrounds; Not MySpace.

Wow. Just wow. Botachi, I have to call you out on this one: You're wrong. Now, let me explain why. I respect that you love art (hell, I'm in bloody art school for Christ's sake ;D), but there is a difference between "scribbles" and "drawing" just like there is between "photography" and "snapshots." A PHOTOGRAPH follows the basic elements of art. Read up on it (it did me wonders, omg. Now I understand art so much better). If you take a pixelated snapshot in front of your webcam with a bra on, that's not art. It's fun. And one or two of these in your gallery doesn't hurt. I know, I have one. However, if you take a self portrait that is balanced and has harmony in the picture (and is of actual good quality), that's art. This is what your gallery, and all art sites, should be made up of. Not shitty snapshots of your new hair do (which I've been guilty of too, on dA. But I always DELETE them after a week or so). I hope you understand where I'm coming from, and perhaps understand the photography a little more. Also: we aren't deleting art we don't like. If you take a screenshot of the entire sketcher and upload it, that goes. Art should be neat, organized and presentable. I'd be terribly ashamed of myself if I tried to hang a piece up in a gallery (internet or real) that was wrinkled, on huge lined paper and with chocolate milk stains all over it. That's not presentable. That's slobbish. And it goes hand in hand with the "what should we upload?" thing aforementioned. I'm not even going to touch base on your comment about the administration team. I said what I needed to say before, and if you didn't read it, I highly recommend you do. Thoroughly. I will repeat one thing though: [i]"Please don't judge if you don't like it without walking in our shoes first."[/i] To sum everything up one more time for everyone: THIS IS [b]ART[/b]GROUNDS. ART. ARTARTART! We are not myspace. We are not photobucket, and somewhere along the lines the users (admins included) forgot this.

I know, but I've seen people upload things that are perfectly fine and they got deleted. They were neat, they were actually really good. I just don't understand.

And also, I'm not even talking about photos anymore. I don't know if its a glitch or what but good art is getting deleted and you won't believe how many messages i've lost. I don't know, I'm just really.. frustrated.

Yeah, I uploaded an animation yesterday and it was delelted. It was only a WIP, and it was taken off. I asked thor and he said that WIPs are ok, as long as uploader is asking for a critique *which I was asking*. I reuploaded it and I will upload a new picture to replace it, but I shouldnt have to reupload it when it didn't need to be deleted in the first place.

"This is Artgrounds; Not MySpace." eeeh... you have myspace worthy pictures in your gallery...

You guys do realize it's not just me and Rip deleting images, correct? Seriously? Let's all rape the admins in the ass with complaints. We're under stress too. Just like all updates on ANY site, they all start rocky then smooth out. Give it time people, Christ.

Are there glitches going on as well with uploading, or are all the missing images a result of the admins sorting through the galleries? I myself have had no issues uploading.

Okay, I hate play "the bad guy," or being mean at all, but I'm seriously fed up with everything I'm reading here. I'm gonna be quite frank with [i]everyone[/i]. This isn't directed to one person, but [b]everyone who reads[/b], so please pay close attention. Every time I go through and explain something to someone in the shout, in this forum or through an external messenger (usually a repetition of what I said in previous posts in this thread), I hear "I can't help it; I'm frustrated." Well, guess what, folks. SO ARE WE. You think you guys are the only ones frustrated? Do you honestly thing we have all of this time in our day to go through and delete uncropped sketches, scribbles, snapshots, etc? And if we do, do you honestly think that we [i]enjoy[/i] it? I know I CERTAINLY have much more pleasurable things to do online when I get the break to be here than sit here, clean up your messes, babysit the sketchers and repeat myself over and over and over again. All you guys (not all of you, but you know who you are) have done is put your lit cigarettes out on RPD and I for explaining why this is going on like it's our fault that all of this is going on. Do yourselves and us a favor and don't type up this huge, angry, extremely biased response to Thor's choice to clean the site up of what's not considered "presentable art" or "art" at all. Stop, cool off and THINK for a change. Why do you think I don't respond the second someone else does? Because I take the time to actually think about what I want to say, consider the other side of the story and try to type up a thought out, considerable response to try and get an understanding across. There's a huge difference between saying "you're just power hungry" and "I don't understand or think this is very fair." If you can't see it, then I'm sorry...but you need to get off the internet and grow up. I hate needing to be so straight-forward and...well...rude about this, but I'm tired of getting yelled at by people who aren't thinking about or considering our side of the story or even why this is happening. Just because we're deleting the aforementioned doesn't mean this site is becoming "less fun." You're just pissed and need to shut up and leave your computer until this all blows over. I'm gonna quote RPD, because he made some excellent points that I think everyone should REALLY think about: [quote]You guys do realize it's not just me and Rip deleting images, correct?[/quote] [quote]We're under stress too. Just like all updates on ANY site, they all start rocky then smooth out. Give it time people[/quote] And I will close by saying this: I am not trying to offend anyone. However, walk away knowing that you have highly offended me. I LOVE this site to death. So does RPD. So does everyone else who is/has admined. Why do you think we've stuck around so long? It's attitudes like the ones I've been on the receiving end of that makes me want to quit. This site is an amazing, fun and beautiful site. Don't destroy it. Don't chase away the people taking time our of their days as volunteers to help this site run and be the best it can possibly be. Thank you for reading this, and thank you to those who are tolerant and open to what I just said.

Bravo Rip, well said. If it means much I'm backing you guys up on what you're doing, and I'm sorry that people seem to be so ignorant of your situation. I'm sorry that they're giving you such a hard time over it.

... :| okay, i was fine with this rule until i just uploaded one of the only pics i'm proud of and it got deleted. seriously? this is a really stupid rule. it seems like you're deleting anything that doesn't appeal to you just to make this a perfect site.

MENTOK! THE MIND TAKER! BWOOOOOEEEEOOOO! Lighten up People.

Chunin. Read Rip's above post, please. No offense meant, honestly, but reading before responding is a wonderful practice and must be used, especially on the boards. Rip and RPD, much respect to you. I know dealing with all this bullcrap nonsense is grating on your nerves, so hopefully my respect and well-wishes will ease some of it for you. And Rip, yer my sis. So you get obligatory love. XD

And that's mind taking. FROM THE MASTER.

I am teh Massa! </retard moment> Just gotta lighten things up. :B Your banner caught my eye, though: have you gotten into BFH RPD? I've been killing for a Beta Key (almost literally) but I miss every dang contest. I blame being a busybody. XD

I blame work. I made the signature myself, you can use it if you want; just don't leech off my Photobucket. ;P

Naw, I don't wanna use the siggy, I wanna play the dang game! XD I'll settle for Combat Arms until I get in. CA is still kickarse fun.

I did read it. And my art doesn't fit anything she describe. None of the pictures were scribbles, none of them were screenshots, sketches, or anything like that. It was all freehand stuff I spent TIME on :| So I see no reason for them to delete it. And yeah, it does piss me off that I can't even upload here anymore.

I, and the rest of the team, don't simply delete art that "we don't like." If it wasn't presentable, which is one of the specs, I deleted it. Just like every other admin on this site if the find something that doesn't fit the specs. That simple. It has nothing to do with personal preferences, or personal grudges. You were okay with this new thing going on until it was your stuff that apparently got removed. Just like everyone else. I don't know what to tell you. You are allowed to upload things. But make sure it's presentable and falls within the qualifications of "artwork." If you don't like it, take it up with Thor or Braden, perhaps even Sif. If you further don't like it, leave. Forgive me for being straight forward and crude, but if you read my previous posts and respected where I was coming from in them, you wouldn't have approached the subject the way you did, strong opinion or not.

From this point forward, I will not deal with people who do not approach the me on this subject with respect and courtesy. This includes any posts in the forums. Anyone who is upset can talk to me like a human, not say "boohoo wah my art was delete how unfair." I will not help those who are not seeking it. Talk to me and I'll talk to you and perhaps I can [i]help.[/i] You can ask anyone who HAS approached me with questions instead of an attitude.

Well put. You don't need the extra stress, after all. None of the admins do. Lord knows they put up with enough. Chunin, You COULD be going about it better, y'know? Instead of being angry, take the time to message an admin and ask about it. If you still have the pic on your HDD, show them the pic and explain why you think it should remain. It's not too hard, my friend. Just take a breather, then take the time to make your point civilly without anger. This really goes for anyone else who feels they've been wronged: take the time to explain your situation instead of going nutter over it. You're people, so act like people instead of angry animals. Just my two-cents. Wonder if it's even spelled that way...

No one ever answered my question. D: Cause if there's a glitch, I think about 50% of these complaints are irrelevant. If there's not a glitch, maybe admins should be a bit more careful before they delete newer submissions? Or if we specify specifically in our comments that we tried on it, you just take our word for it? I haven't had anything deleted yet, so I'm pretty much coming from neutral ground. And we could also decreases excess waste by deleting accounts that haven't been used in over 6 months. If they haven't been removed already. P.S I would gladly donate, but as far as I can see there are no readily-accessible means to. And sending money in the mail, especially internationally, is a bit too risky for me.

P.S It would be nice if the admins could tell the user why a picture was deleted. -nodnod-

I agree.

I also wish for a way to know why the admin take x picture down. A little 'Click here to see why [title of image] was removed' link, perhaps. Typed up by the admin themselves would be nice, instead of the retarded automated response as to why. Like on some other websites for whatever reason (theft, against the rules, etc.etc.) that gives you a robot response instead of knowing the exact reason. And if its too much work? Wtf, you've apparently got enough time to delete the picture. Why not write out a sentence or two to tell us /why/ our picture (and possible hard work on said picture) was removed?

i agree, i want a reason for things being deleted. I uploaded a picture that i worked on for awhile, it was the first good thing i had drawn in a long time, and it got deleted. It didn't disobey the guidelines whatsoever, the only thing was it was a little sketchy, but that's the way I draw. I respect that you guys want presentable art on the site, but if it has to be perfect screw that.

also: "The admins now have permission to delete: - screenshots of things the uploader didn't create - things that aren't art (ex. scribbles) - photos that have no artistic merit - any image claimed by the uploader to suck - any image that don't follow the upload guidelines AT ALL" Nowhere does it say "Admins have permission to delete pictures that are not good/presentable." The upload guidelines don't really demand anything, they just tell you to ask yourself a few things, but it doesn't have to be an amazing picture all photoshopped and worked on for 8 hours to be considered presentable.

I agree with Botachi. I was told by an /admin/ to reupload my pics that I got deleted and they still deleted them in five minutes! I'm really starting to think this is the admins going "this picture sucks or it's not 100 percent perfection beyond belief so I'm deleting this" :|

exactly.... And i go back to my theory of the admins not following their own guidelines..... I think the rule should just be deleted altogether, or followed more.... because there's nothing wrong with the pictures being deleted.. We're sorry we don't draw perfect